Is Scotland still a Socialist Nation?

[kylet15]

I'd like to start a debate about if Scotland is really still a Socialist Nation.

In my opinion, it is moving closer to the center. The only reason that Socialism has held on is through the Scottish National Party, as Scotland is regaining its identity.

I believe that in the next 30 years, the Labour and SNP will start to lose their voters, as the Older Voters, who believe in the Socialist Parties will die. We are then left with the new middle class in Scotland who have been shown to vote for the Lib Dems and the Conservatives.

I have no doubt that Labour and SNP will remain major political parties in Scotland but I also believe that the Lib Dems and the Conservatives will start stealing their votes as people lose their allegiance to these parties and especially the Labour Party as they no-longer have this working class link.

Happy Debating!

[LordAnubis]

It is, and we're still trying to weed out the remians of it. Down in Bullingdon HQ we're constructing a Thatcher MKII to invade Scotland. Estimate takedown time is 5 years, so yeah, within the next 30 they'll all be Green/Tory/LD/BNP.

We've got it covered ;)

[Mockler]

I wonder how many people vote SNP but dont believe that strongly in Scottish Indipendence? Interesting thought.

[Generation Zero]

Funny, I never really though of Scotland as socialist. If it is, my respect for it just rose a notch.

[Red-Fred]

No, I never knew it had socialist tendencies either...

Meh, my knowledge of Scottish politics is fairly poor overall tbh. :L

[LordAnubis]

I think by socialist he means Labour. By which he means 'vivid distaste and hatred for Thatcher' as shown in the below clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smv8MI2q29g

[kylet15]

Sadly, Scotland seems to have a hate of Thatcher. I personally admire and respect her as one of our best Prime Ministers, she did what had to be done and the boom that we had was indirectly her doing. The recession was partly Labour's doing.

[Darryl'Libertarian'Jones]

Sadly, Scotland seems to have a hate of Thatcher. I personally admire and respect her as one of our best Prime Ministers, she did what had to be done and the boom that we had was indirectly her doing. The recession was partly Labour's doing.

Partly? :D

(filler).

[kylet15]

I would say it was completely their faults but we simply don't know for sure that Gordon Brown made a complete much up with the economy(Although I'm Pretty Positive)

[coruscant]

I think it is more Thatcher-hate than Labour-love with Scotland.

[Conzales]

In the South East, if youre not conservative there is something wrong. In Scotland, loving thatcher constitutes the same political popularity status as that of Gary Glitter's music as of 2008.

[Dirk/DSF]

Pff. Scotland has never been socialist. The majority of real socialists in Scotland live in Glasgow. (I'm actually serious).

Seeing as Lib dems are further left than Labour, er, yeah...

The SNP says much and does nothing. Not that they can, really, of course. But they're not socialists. If only.

But as for the political landscape of Scotland. The Tories will make a tiny gain, Labour will make a giant loss and the SNP will make a decent rise.

[Daniel Frost]

LordAnubis supports replacing Scotland's centre right with the Green Party?

Why, he has become a closet lefty after all!

[LordAnubis]

LordAnubis supports replacing Scotland's centre right with the Green Party?

Why, he has become a closet lefty after all!

Either that or I just don't care for Scotland :p

[Pikey]

Scottish people are clearly more socialist on average than the rest of the UK. They're still just as capitalist as the rest of the UK. Even in the Scottish devolved government it's split between SNP and Labour who have pretty similar economic views.

[Generation Zero]

Scottish people are clearly more socialist on average than the rest of the UK. They're still just as capitalist as the rest of the UK. Even in the Scottish devolved government it's split between SNP and Labour who have pretty similar economic views.

More to the left, maybe.
I wouldn't call Labour or SNP socialist.

[coruscant]

Yeah but really if Labour wasn't like the Conservatives in their eyes then they'd vote for Labour, not SNP and it would go back to Labour/Cons/Lib Dems.

[M-lo]

I wonder how many people vote SNP but dont believe that strongly in Scottish Indipendence? Interesting thought.

If I lived in Scotland, I'd vote SNP- not because I really care about independence, but because the SNP has scrapped tuition fees in Scotland and kept NHS car parks free etc. Scotland has a good deal, it seems.

[Liam Hannan]

I'd like to start a debate about if Scotland is really still a Socialist Nation.

In my opinion, it is moving closer to the center. The only reason that Socialism has held on is through the Scottish National Party, as Scotland is regaining its identity.

I believe that in the next 30 years, the Labour and SNP will start to lose their voters, as the Older Voters, who believe in the Socialist Parties will die. We are then left with the new middle class in Scotland who have been shown to vote for the Lib Dems and the Conservatives.

I think your reasoning is flawed, as is the fundamentals of your research. In Scottish Political trends class tends to be a minor influence however perception of class ranks as a medium influence dependent on geography. That is, actual class is not a huge influence, but if people perceive themselves to be of a working class background in Glasgow they vote Labour, and in the North East they vote SNP. If we project 30 years into the future, then most of the current stock of conservative voters are dead. Uptake in new voters is startling, showing 50% plus support for the SNP, with the Lib Dems and Greens doing astonishingly well. Labour tends to be less dominant than in previous generations, however in areas like Glasgow and Lanarkshire they still knock the nats into a firm second place.

Uptake amongst new voters for the Conservatives is minimal, but steady. They will continue at roughly 12-15% of the vote, apparently for ever (numbers of new voters supporting them tends to be lower, however Conservatives enjoy above odds gains in popularity with time).

In essence, there is no "new middle class" and they have not been shown to vote for anyone in particular, although the broad trend is still towards the left of centre. Remember the Greens, SSP, and Solidarity are still shockingly popular amongst young lefties who tend to mature to social democrats.


I have no doubt that Labour and SNP will remain major political parties in Scotland but I also believe that the Lib Dems and the Conservatives will start stealing their votes as people lose their allegiance to these parties and especially the Labour Party as they no-longer have this working class link.

Happy Debating!

Again, do not subserviate class to geography; geography and family traditions are far more important here. Proclaiming yourself a Thatcherite is about as socially acceptable as hand grenading bus trips for the elderly.


I wonder how many people vote SNP but dont believe that strongly in Scottish Indipendence? Interesting thought.

Depends on the area. Can vary from about 5-20% of the support base. In the northeast it's higher than in the central belt because in the central belt people tend only to vote nat because they're pro independence. Whereas in the NE people tend to vote nat because they agree with the social policies, and may or may not support the independence so much.

Bear in mind that this is balanced by nationalists who vote labour, tory or lib dem because they agree with their social policies; even though they like the idea of independence.

Funny, I never really though of Scotland as socialist. If it is, my respect for it just rose a notch.

Google "Red Clydeside". Scotland's been known for being socialist in the past. James Connolly was born in Edinburgh, Keir Hardy was a Glasgow man. Ramsay MacDonald was a Scot. As was John Maclean, and Thomas Muir...

Huge list of Scots personalities that the left admires usually follows, rightly or wrongly including names like Thomas Paine, who was really more of a renaissance liberal.


I think by socialist he means Labour. By which he means 'vivid distaste and hatred for Thatcher' as shown in the below clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smv8MI2q29g

Nope. Not as we know it. For as far back as I've seen records (which is the best part of 80 years) and supposedly as far back as the industrial revolution, the Scots have been poorer than the English and have tended more towards revolutionary politics and a strong leaning to the left. Engels at one point reviewed the slums of Dundee and was utterly appalled - even more so than when he reported the condition of the working classes in Manchester. Labour has been the best mainstream venting for this for generations - and enjoyed immense popularity post 79 in a vain attempt to get Thatcher booted out.

It makes sense however, to categorise the Scots national Political leaning as Social Democratic/Socialist.


Sadly, Scotland seems to have a hate of Thatcher. I personally admire and respect her as one of our best Prime Ministers, she did what had to be done and the boom that we had was indirectly her doing. The recession was partly Labour's doing.

Would you care to qualify those statements? It will save me launching into the whole tyrade if I know exactly what it is you admire.

I would say it was completely their faults but we simply don't know for sure that Gordon Brown made a complete much up with the economy(Although I'm Pretty Positive)

You remember in 1979 they sold off council housing stocks, under Thatcher's direction? You remember in 1982/3 It was her Conservative Government who took the decision to grow the economy on consumption rather than on production?

You know that because of rising house prices caused by a contracting market as housing stocks decreased because councils could not enter into newbuilds without losing millions of pounds of public money because people bought council stocks for a fraction of their worth people were forced to spend more on mortgages in order to become a houseowner, thus creating a rising amount of debt. And that because consumption increased above production as a method of growing the economy credit was created essentially to trick people into spending more than they could afford and that both those things have culminated in over a Trillion pounds of unpayable debt - which is what caused the "credit crunch". Banks just couldn't float the toxic loans anymore.

I am strong in criticising Labour for doing nothing to prevent this situation occurring, especially when it was obvious it must, however let's be very clear where these problems started. The decisions which led to the current structure, and state, of our economy, were taken by the Thatcher Government.