Vegetarianism ??

[LYM_Satyz]

Vegetarianism

Should we stop eating other animals?
Are there any Moral, Environmental and Health Issues involved?

Men and Women in most rich countries eat lots of meat than other countries.
Domesticated Livestock - animals born and raised on farms to be killed and sold for their meat.

Some vegetarians eat fish if it has been caught in the wild, many will not eat flesh of any sort. Some people are vegans, choosing not to eat any animal product, include eggs and dairy (milk) foods such as cheese, butter and yogurt. Vegans and many vegetarians also refuse to wear leather or fur because it comes from animals.

What Do you Think ? - Discuss!

[Hamsterwaffle]

Vegetarianism is a very stupid thing, and quite unhealthy. Humans evolved eating meat, its the natural way. Plus Bacon is meat.

[The Rt Hon Dan Irwin]

I wont say what i thing of it I will only get a warning on my name... The food chain is a natural thing- we are made to eat the meat that falls below us in the food chain. Can you imagine if we all stopped eating meat. Firstly we would see thousands of farmers lose all their income- a disasterous effect on the economy. Secondly we would all end up weak and hungry

[boltfw]

Funny that you should mention this thread after me bringing up the topic of hunting. Are you a vegetarian?

What do you have against meat and the country life??

I don't want to insult you in any way just to let you know....

[The Rt Hon Dan Irwin]

What do you have against meat and the country life??


Thankyou. People from towns dont realise just how many lives are dependant on agriculture, meat in paticular. Thanks to supermarkets farmers make little profits fro seling meat due to greedy mr tesco. They can no longer sell their meat at traditional markets because mr tesco buys the land where the market is held and build a superstore (eg abergele). Many farmers could not just start growing veg beacause many own land on the moors etc that is unfarmable.

Many farmers have been bought up with only ever one career in mind, if they were forced to sell up they would never be able to get a conventional job

[LYM_Satyz]

Haha Guys Calm Down
I am not a vegetarian
I am a Non_veg. Guys I just need your opinions because there are some people in my school and around where i live dont like meat and were telling me. So i thought i should ask what you guys think?

I eat all meat except for Beef, Pork n ham

Dunno why but its kinda against my religion
But still i eat everything else!
But here i just want ur opinion.
This is NOTHING related to the hunting topic. :p

[Hamsterwaffle]

I eat all meat except for Beef, Pork n ham

You mean you've not had bacon? You've not lived.

[LYM_Satyz]

You mean you've not had bacon? You've not lived.

haha Dunno, Its not my fault i haven't. I would love to, but i cant. This is where my religion comes in.
:rolleyes:

[The Rt Hon Dan Irwin]

AM i right in saying it is against religion because a pig is considered a dirty animal ie it will eat anything- in some reccent cases pig itself...

[make.me.smile]

Being vegetarian seems so pointless to me. It's the circle of life - you eat and you get eaten (kind of anyway). I've been looking for a tshirt wth the slogan - Save A Cow - Eat A Vegetarian - on it for a long time now as I agree with it 100% **** being a vegetarian!

[LYM_Satyz]

AM i right in saying it is against religion because a pig is considered a dirty animal ie it will eat anything- in some reccent cases pig itself...

What! Really?
I dont even know why i am not allowed to eat pigs. I think you might be right or something.

I think We are not allowed to Eat Pigs because they are Dirty or something. yes That is True

and we are not Allowed to eat Cows becuz some people in our Religion Worship them :confused:

I really hate these sort of rules but I cant change them so i have to follow them as my 'Duty"

[Hamsterwaffle]

You could always form a splinter religion, like when Henry VIII didn't like the pope telling him what he could do and so he made himself head of the church of England.

[LYM_Satyz]

You could always form a splinter religion, like when Henry VIII didn't like the pope telling him what he could do and so he made himself head of the church of England.

haha I really dont wanna do tha in thsi age :P

[Matt. P]

I don't see what's wrong with the meat industry. For one things it provides many people with jobs around the world, including Britain. Eating meat is a completely natural thing. Human beings are still living creatures and there is nothing immoral with eating other animals. Besides, vegetarianism is not going to stop the meat industry providing it is in demand, I heard a friend of mine speak to his girlfriend say "seeing as you're not eating your portion of the World's dead animal, can I have double?"...that sums it up.

On the whole manor of how meat is produced, it should be more responsibly managed however. I don't mean in "animal rights" (although it shouldn't be pointlessly cruel) but in how vast areas of rainforest are being destroyed for cattle land. I read in the New York Times that meat is one the largest growing demands in the world, and could potentially become the biggest greenhouse gas polluter in the world. Not against meat in general, but better managed (no cut and burn, where the rainforest is abandoned after 3 years and never allowed to recover).

[EmmaGallen]

I don't eat very much pork or beef and try to only eat the free range ones (which is worse for the enviorment but better for the animal). I know a lot of evangelistic vegeterains and they do my head in.

In genesis it says we should only eat the fruit of trees which is a bot weird. And then in like revelations it says no pork but then some Saint agreed we can eat pork but not shellfish...

[:Vampiress:]

Your going to have to pry the chicken leg from my cold dead fingers.

[faith16120]

Vegetarianism is a very stupid thing, and quite unhealthy. Humans evolved eating meat, its the natural way. Plus Bacon is meat.

vegetarians and Vegans are actually on average much more healthy than meat eaters. There is less chance of heart conditions, diabetes, cancer etc.

Also they create less pollution and have less impact on the world.

I think you should find out about a subject before you make remarks, I recommend:

http://www.vegansociety.com/html/
http://www.vegsoc.org/

personally its done wonders for me and my health going vegan.

[make.me.smile]

But why would you want to go Vegan/vegetarian??? I don't think it exactly improves your health, and it means you must buy equivalents so that you still get what you need. There's no point.

[Steven_Jones_-_Sheffield]

It's not that I dislike animals but I believe (as do many) that humans are the most important species and thus should top the food chain.

Steven Jones

[faith16120]

But why would you want to go Vegan/vegetarian??? I don't think it exactly improves your health, and it means you must buy equivalents so that you still get what you need. There's no point.

The MANY health benifits, adding to relieving the suffering of animals, less enviromental impact... shall i go on?

[make.me.smile]

What are those health benefits? You just replace what you're lacking from not eating meat with some random factory equivalents. To the whole animal suffering argument....I have no reason to disagree with it, I just don't think it's a valid reason. What's the enviromental impact?

[faith16120]

What are those health benefits? You just replace what you're lacking from not eating meat with some random factory equivalents. To the whole animal suffering argument....I have no reason to disagree with it, I just don't think it's a valid reason. What's the enviromental impact?

HEALTH:
Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as Vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer and much more. The primary benefits are: weight loss, lower cholesterol and blood pressure, less use of medication, avoiding surgery and cancer, feeling more energized, and looking great.a vegan lifestyle is one of the best decisions you can make to preserve and improve your health.

ENVIRONMENT:
Climate change: With rising temperatures, rising sea levels, melting icecaps and glaciers, shifting ocean currents and weather patterns, climate change is the most serious challenge facing the human race. The livestock sector is a major player, responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions measured in CO2 equivalent. This is a higher share than transport….Livestock are also responsible for almost two-thirds (64 percent) of anthropogenic ammonia emissions, which contribute significantly to acid rain and acidification of ecosystems.

Water: The livestock sector is a key player in increasing water use, accounting for over 8 percent of global human water use, mostly for the irrigation of feedcrops. It is probably the largest sectoral source of water pollution, contributing to eutrophication, “dead” zones in coastal areas, degradation of coral reefs, human health problems, emergence of antibiotic resistance and many others. The major sources of pollution are from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and pesticides used for feedcrops, and sediments from eroded pastures.

Land degredation: Expansion of livestock production is a key factor in deforestation, especially in Latin America where the greatest amount of deforestation is occurring – 70 percent of previous forested land in the Amazon is occupied by pastures, and feedcrops cover a large part of the remainder.

Biodiversity: The livestock sector may well be the leading player in the reduction of biodiversity, since it is the major driver of deforestation, as well as one of the leading drivers of land degradation, pollution, climate change, overfishing, sedimentation of coastal areas and facilitation of invasions by alien species.

Manure, and wastewater containing manure, can severely harm river and stream ecosystems. Manure contains ammonia which is highly toxic to fish at low levels. Increased amounts of nutrients, such as nitrogen and phosphorus, from AFOs can cause algal blooms which block waterways and deplete oxygen as they decompose. This can kill fish and other aquatic organisms, devastating the entire aquatic food chain

Its said that for the space you need for a non-veg diet i.e fields, you only need 1/3 of that for a vegetarien/vegan diet.

Its loads of info, so read through it at your own leisure!

Many of the replacement products contain much less ingredients than meat and other non-veg foods, and less E numbers etc.

[make.me.smile]

Never knew the whole enviromental consequences.....sorry, doesn't convince me but it does make you think. As to the diet - it's not healthier! It's only healthier if you take like an obese meat eater - of course that'll be unhealthy. But if you take someone with a healthy and balanced diet, there are no benefits from vegetarianism!

[faith16120]

That's ok! No-one seems to think about the other consequences, I think we are all quite arrogant to it at 1st. Me included, I did it meat for quite a few years when I was younger, and yes I do love bacon sandwiches and ribs! but now i see the animal not the meat.

Its said that in comparison to a normal, healthy meat eater vegetarianism is best, becuase of the dangers of meat and fish to our health. For example, chloestrol, cancer increased risks, mercury etc in fish that we then consume etc.

[Deoxys]

I think of both sides there are health benefits. For example, I know a vegetarian and she has to take supplements for something, can't remember what, because she doesn't get it due to not eating meat.
It's all a matter of personal opinion. I don't see the point in not eating meat on a moral issue, at the end of the day they animals will still be killed and made into... sausages or whatever. And if no-one ate meat, farmers would probably just kill most of their livestock because the whole reason they're bred is for us to consume.
I could never go without chicken, venison or partridge - I adore meat.
But I have nothing against people who choose not to.

[Hamsterwaffle]

Isn't it more cruel not to eat meat? All your doing is making the animal die in vein, if you eat it then at least it died for a reason.

[Deoxys]

Isn't it more cruel not to eat meat? All your doing is making the animal die in vein, if you eat it then at least it died for a reason.

That's what I already mentioned.
At the end of the day, the animals will be killed no matter what.

[atearth]

Humans on earth are allowed to eat whatever they want, as long as it comes from a farming facility. This does include Whale meat.

[:Vampiress:]

Whats the deal with eating meat? It's nourishing and has essential irons and vitamins. Can i just ask do vegatarians stay vegatarians when or if there pregnant?
It is the kinda thing to do to eat the meat atleast then it was killed with a purpose. Unless we feed the meat to it's fellow animals to fatten them up ready for the slaughter.

[fan_fanxxx]

hmmm it's weird because I'm a vegetarian but I don't think I should be . . .
I don't eat meat because I can't stand the taste or texture, but I completely agree with hunting and meat eating. In fact I think as a nation we should be more experimental in the meat we do eat - just not me I guess. It's interesting though that people now seem to associate vegetarianism with animal rights activists etc whereas many people like me just don't like the taste or in fact stop eating meat for personal health reasons one example being that after having gallstones, some people choose to become vegetarians because it is thought that eating red meat is a contributing factor.

[faith16120]

Isn't it more cruel not to eat meat? All your doing is making the animal die in vein, if you eat it then at least it died for a reason.

No, ,becuase the less meat you buy and eat the less is needed to fill the shelves of the product you brought.

Less consumer = less production needed!

SIMPLE

[make.me.smile]

I doubt you'll convince the entire world to turn vegetarian...

[Gotlieb Alexander]

I did not climb to the top of the food chain so I can eat vegetables.

I don't accept the animal suffering arguments because the alternative to killing a cow is the cow never being born and so I don't believe it suffers more through life. I mean, it's not as if farmers are just going to let the cows free if the nation turned vedgie.

As for the health benefits, a lot is up to the individual, a diet of too much meat is bad for you but no more so than a diet lacking in protein. I think that children in particular need meat because it is hard for people to get enough protein from other sources, particularly if they are vegan.

[faith16120]

I doubt you'll convince the entire world to turn vegetarian...

Thats not my aim.

I just want to do my bit, and if needed i'll give my opinion.
All my family eat meat, so its I havent convinced them.

[soph41190]

I'm a true bred carnivore tis true, a lot of my family are veggies though.
I am hugely against the creulty of animals, and I'm not saying that the culling of one animal is better than another. But the only time I have ever been 'alright' with killing animals is to eat. Its productive, healthy, and well...I'm not going into the benefits but humans have evolved as omnivores. That's why I stay away from 'glamour' meats, especially from rare animals, such as Whales, Horse (not rare but not traditionally eaten either) That annoys me. I can't abide mindless killing, and some veggies would argue that it IS mindless, but, humans have eaten pigs, cows (of a sort) etc since we first came down from the trees haha. The Dinosaurs didn't suddenly feel bad and take to eating lettuice.

[soph41190]

No, ,becuase the less meat you buy and eat the less is needed to fill the shelves of the product you brought.

Less consumer = less production needed!

SIMPLE
More anemia!
Sorry, campaign against animal testing, campaign against fox hunting. But eating animals is a human neccessity end of, you CAN survive without meat, but you're not getting a balanced diet. If we're going to take the sandal-bearing approach, then we should stop lions killing antelope...its so MEAAAAN!! whimper.......yes sarcasm. Do you're bit, by eating organic, non-battery chickens for example.

[faith16120]

More anemia!
Sorry, campaign against animal testing, campaign against fox hunting. But eating animals is a human neccessity end of, you CAN survive without meat, but you're not getting a balanced diet. If we're going to take the sandal-bearing approach, then we should stop lions killing antelope...its so MEAAAAN!! whimper.......yes sarcasm. Do you're bit, by eating organic, non-battery chickens for example.


Yes but they are eating them to survive.
We can survive without meat and your wrong you can get a balanced diet without meat. It's just a case of finding replacements.

[Hamsterwaffle]

I challenge you to find a replacement for Bacon.

[Steven_Jones_-_Sheffield]

Mankind has evolved to eat mean, look at the state of some vegetarians, man (and womans) needs come first.

Steven Jones

[Spirited discussion]

HEALTH:
Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as Vitamins C and E and phytochemicals. Vegetarians have been reported to have lower body mass indices than nonvegetarians, as well as lower rates of death; vegetarians also show lower blood cholesterol levels; lower blood pressure; and lower rates of hypertension, type 2 diabetes, and prostate and colon cancer and much more. The primary benefits are: weight loss, lower cholesterol and blood pressure, less use of medication, avoiding surgery and cancer, feeling more energized, and looking great.a vegan lifestyle is one of the best decisions you can make to preserve and improve your health.

Many of the replacement products contain much less ingredients than meat and other non-veg foods, and less E numbers etc.

whilst you're right that veggies are on average healthier, it has nothing to do with the eating of meat. Its simply that often when deciding to become veggie the aim is to be healthy and so you eat healthier, if you had done the same whilst eating meat it would have the same effect.
The other effect is chips. Veggies are something like 90% less likely to eat chips or other deep fried food more than 2 times a week than meet eaters. Its not the meat that makes you unhealthy its the stuff you have with it.
Weight loss: well just eat less meat, theres less nutrition in veg, thats why you're loosing weight.

Having said that we are omnivores (as many people have mentioned) and actually we should only have meat 5 or 4 times a week, many people have it 7times.
Meat eaters are less healthy on average because they're less likely to care about health not because meat is less healthy, this is one of the ways that statistics can be bent to mean something they dont.

"Many of the replacement products contain much less ingredients than meat and other non-veg foods, and less E numbers etc." It all depends what you buy. Meat has less ingredients and less E numbers than Quorn. Go onto processed meats and admitedly its a compleatley different story.

The health has nothing to do with the meat, only to do with other dietry choices, in which veggies usually eat better.

As to the environment, you're compleately right, though I'm sure if we cut down on meat consumption and upped fish-farming we could all manage the 4 a week suggestion sustainably.


Hamsterwaffle - I too have an obsession with bacon, but try veggie bacon(It tastes like fried cardboard). You'll end up apreciating a good real bacon butty or BLT all the more.

[faith16120]

whilst you're right that veggies are on average healthier, it has nothing to do with the eating of meat. Its simply that often when deciding to become veggie the aim is to be healthy and so you eat healthier, if you had done the same whilst eating meat it would have the same effect.
The other effect is chips. Veggies are something like 90% less likely to eat chips or other deep fried food more than 2 times a week than meet eaters. Its not the meat that makes you unhealthy its the stuff you have with it.
Weight loss: well just eat less meat, theres less nutrition in veg, thats why you're loosing weight.

Having said that we are omnivores (as many people have mentioned) and actually we should only have meat 5 or 4 times a week, many people have it 7times.
Meat eaters are less healthy on average because they're less likely to care about health not because meat is less healthy, this is one of the ways that statistics can be bent to mean something they dont.

"Many of the replacement products contain much less ingredients than meat and other non-veg foods, and less E numbers etc." It all depends what you buy. Meat has less ingredients and less E numbers than Quorn. Go onto processed meats and admitedly its a compleatley different story.

The health has nothing to do with the meat, only to do with other dietry choices, in which veggies usually eat better.

As to the environment, you're compleately right, though I'm sure if we cut down on meat consumption and upped fish-farming we could all manage the 4 a week suggestion sustainably.


Hamsterwaffle - I too have an obsession with bacon, but try veggie bacon(It tastes like fried cardboard). You'll end up apreciating a good real bacon butty or BLT all the more.

But the real issue is with meat and its effects. Anaemia, appendicitis, arthritis, breast cancer, cancer of the colon, cancer of the prostate, constipation, diabetes, gall stones, gout, high blood pressure, indigestion, obesity, piles, strokes and varicose veins are just some of the well known disorders which are more likely to affect meat eaters than vegetarians.

Add to those hazards the fact that if you eat meat you may be consuming hormones, drugs and other chemicals that have been fed to the animals before they were killed and you can see the extent of the danger.

Being a healthy vegetarien is better than being a healthy meat eater, many of the world's most successful athletes (particularly those who specialise in endurance events) follow a strictly vegetarian diet.

Fish however again has problems: The biggest problem with eating a lot of fish is the possibility of mercury consumption. Most bodies of water are polluted with mercury, so almost all fish and seafood is at risk of containing dangerous levels of mercury. Interestingly, one study found that frying fish may actually increase the concentration of mercury in the fish. Elevated levels of mercury can lead to nervous system problems with brain or nerve damage.

Large Scale Fishing causing many problems in itself: the amount of pollution, the use of nets which very often trap other sea life, taking such a huge amount that it affects the food for the predators.

[soph41190]

Well, I'm sure any other carnivore can find other ways to survive, I don't see why we should HAVE to be so picky. Eating meat is one of the only natural things that humans do. Fine, we don't HAVE to survive on animals...but why shouldn't we!? Bears don't HAVE to eat meat...but they do!
Why are we any different? We're intellegent? Not if this is an argument we're not.

[faith16120]

Yes but its a personal choice.
As i said, I am not trying to convince others to become vegans/ Vegetarians, but if they want to know i'll tell them what I know.
We shouldn't because as a personal choice I do not see us as higher than animals. I think if we can find other things to eat then to combat the suffering and problems with meat we could eat them if its our choice.
Bears cannot exactly go shopping to tesco and find replacements. HUMAN nature isn't in them as much as us, so they cannot see the issue with it. they eat meat to survive, but we don't. We eat it for pleasure. If you want to thats your choice.

[Spirited discussion]

Large Scale Fishing causing many problems in itself: the amount of pollution, the use of nets which very often trap other sea life, taking such a huge amount that it affects the food for the predators.

I was talking about fish-farming, just seems ridiculous to me that 2/3 of the earth is water and so we dont farm it. Mercury? Sounds kinda like a scare story to me...

About the naemia, appendicitis, arthritis, breast cancer, cancer of the colon, cancer of the prostate, constipation, diabetes, gall stones, gout, high blood pressure, indigestion, obesity, piles, strokes and varicose veins. Alot of these are not caused by meat but general ill health, veggies being helthier than meat eaters has nothing to do with the eating of clean meat.

The dangers of "hormones, drugs and other chemicals" are true, but they're present in plant farming too. Hormones are more dangerous from animals though, as they're more likely to imitate our own. But pesticides are the most dangerous, and these we get from vegetation as they often dont spray grass.

[soph41190]

I see us as completely equal to animals. But a hungry Bear isn't going to look at you and think 'I'm above this!' it's gonna friggin eat you (only if its very hungry though:D) I know cows don't eat people. But its not mindless killing, like killing for fur, or for fun. Native Americans hunt and are called traditional. With all due respect, I think we'd just patronise everyone, surely leaving them be and saying 'aw poor babies can't protect themselves' is patrionising, thats a superior belief? I don't know, the only reason we make conscious choices is because we 'can', there is a natural circle, and we HAVE to be somewhere in the food chain, to be equal with our co-inhabitants we can't exclude ourselves from the natural order, surely that is saying 'we are above them'?

[Xx-tania-sheffield-xX]

yes on the whole i agree with you about humans being the most important species but does being the most important mean that we have to eat every other thing below us? no it doesnt at all.
we as humans are still the most important in the food chain as we have power over those animals lower than us.

[Becki*LYC]

Hmm vegetarianism. My younger brother is a vegetarian, though I'm not really bothered. I can see a lot of peoples point about not eating meat, but to be honest it's not going to stop me from eating it. I say each to thier own, but without forcing thier opinions on others. I know there are protests outside Macdonalds and things like that, which leads me to ask this question:

We don't force them to eat meat, and we don't protest outside vegetarian resturants. So why does it seem acceptable for vegetarians to protest against what the majority choose to eat?

If anyone has an answer to that, please do tell me. I'm interested to see where the difference lies.

I think everyone should be allowed thier own opinion, and no one should be shunned for being different.

[Connor Sephton]

I respect everyone's right to have their opinions, and I completely respect everyone's right to choose whether they eat meat or not. One thing I don't really like, though, is those sort of protests outside McDonalds - people should be able to be Vegetarians without having to get stick for it or anything, but I disagree that they try to persuade other people to join their clan.

I think people should be allowed to come to their own conclusions and make their own decisions.

[Alice Bond]

Humans are meat eaters.

Not grass eaters.

[Connor Sephton]

Exactly - how come lions are allowed to eat us and we can't eat the lions?

OK, maybe that is a little extreme, but seriously, do we have "MUG" imprinted on our forehead?

[Alice Bond]

Conner has a good point.

Human's are not built to eat vegetables. That's probably why we get ill. Yes that's it. Anything other than meat is BAD. Bad BAD BADDDDD

[Al Young]

Just because we don't have cellulase doesn't mean that we're not built to eat vegetables: our dentition is actually better suited to vegetables than meat. Our canines are not nearly as sharp as those of true carnivores.

That said, I love me a steak.

[Connor Sephton]

Hey listen - its all food. So whatever gets us through the day, I suppose.

If you look back to the history of the human though, you will obviously notice that the cavemen were not settling down to the humble rocket salad, they were out and about hunting for meat.

We are omnivores, Al, we can manage meat with what modest teeth we have. I think we should embrace our versatility.

[Al Young]

Hence why I said that I like steak.

[Alice Bond]

Just because we don't have cellulase doesn't mean that we're not built to eat vegetables: our dentition is actually better suited to vegetables than meat. Our canines are not nearly as sharp as those of true carnivores.

That said, I love me a steak.

Just because our teeth arn't as sharp as your pet labrador they are still perfectly fine for consuming a nice bit of chicken. Mayve your steak is too chewy..try cooking it for longer?

[Connor Sephton]

Hence why I said we should embrace our versatility! :p

[Alice Bond]

Hence why I said we should embrace our versatility! :p

Ok ok ok ok ok ok

[Connor Sephton]

How many people here are vegetarians anyways?

[Alice Bond]

No wayyyyy

[MYPdonjacko]

can i just say that not all people become vegaterians because of ethical issues and for health.

i am a vegaterian both for those reasons, but also for the evironment.

the meat industry is a massive contributor to deforestation and greenhouse gasses, taking far more room than cereals to produce, releasing massive amounts of methane, and 50,000 time as much C02 per calorie as cereals.

to put that into context, you release more carbon dioxide eating a steak than you do filling the tank on a rangerover.

further more, because cereals take up less space, if we did not eat meat with the current land used for agraculture we could feed the world twice over rather than having famine and poverty.

[Connor Sephton]

But does not eating meat honestly make that detrimental an effect on the World? Some how I do not think that eating meat would dramatically change any C02 emissions released - hey, when I listen to the radio - the scientific boffs are talking about hybrid cars - not converting to Vegetarianism!

[faith16120]

can i just say that not all people become vegaterians because of ethical issues and for health.

i am a vegaterian both for those reasons, but also for the evironment.

the meat industry is a massive contributor to deforestation and greenhouse gasses, taking far more room than cereals to produce, releasing massive amounts of methane, and 50,000 time as much C02 per calorie as cereals.

to put that into context, you release more carbon dioxide eating a steak than you do filling the tank on a rangerover.

further more, because cereals take up less space, if we did not eat meat with the current land used for agraculture we could feed the world twice over rather than having famine and poverty.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

[faith16120]

But does not eating meat honestly make that detrimental an effect on the World? Some how I do not think that eating meat would dramatically change any C02 emissions released - hey, when I listen to the radio - the scientific boffs are talking about hybrid cars - not converting to Vegetarianism!

Yes, but all the emissions add up!

[Al Young]

It's so much an issue of carbon emissions, but rather the fact that the energy of food decreases down trophic levels: thus, per square metre, less energy is taken in from meat than any plant food.

[bryantman]

Its not impossible to live without meat, granted, but all the other animals (carnivores anyway) do it happily. We are really quite odd in that we are ombnivores (spelling!).

My theory is meat tastes good and is good for protein so eat it. If we don't kill the chickens, Oscar the family dog will.

But yes its cruel and blah blah battery farming blah

[Al Young]

'Omnivores' is the correct spelling.

[:Vampiress:]

This debate just seems like another way to set people against one another in the life style choice arena. We've seen it before: smokers against non smokers, house-owners against renters, parents against the childfree, and now meat-eaters against vegetarians.
Can't we just let people make the choices they deem acceptable for their own lives? In other words, mind our own business?

[Spirited discussion]

further more, because cereals take up less space, if we did not eat meat with the current land used for agraculture we could feed the world twice over rather than having famine and poverty.

Whilst you may be right on the evrio front, you are wrong here.
According to the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), we are already producing one and a half times the amount of food needed to provide everyone in the world with an adequate and nutritious diet, yet one in seven people is suffering from hunger.
So we dont need that space, we just need to move the food around so it gets to the right people.

And vampiress, yes it is about lifestyle, but one persons lifestyle affects another: Smoking - someone smokes in a pub and they increase my risk of getting cancer, their lifestyle choice but I'm affected too. Vegetarians - they eat vegetables to save the environment but because I eat meat I could be polluting enough to warm the seas to produce the hurricane that hits their town... (ok an exageration there), but you see why we have a vested interest in other peoples "lifestyle choices"?

[make.me.smile]

I say go Vampiress. Let's just all stop forcing our crap on others.

[soph41190]

Wow I didn't say we were the most important species! I'd never say that as I feel completley the opposite!
I feel we are on a par with everything else in nature. So I'm of the belief that if they do it, we do it? We shouldn't have to be the saviours of the Earth because who ever said we were?

[Samantha Stainforth]

I am a pescotarian, I don't eat any meat, but i eat fish and dairy.
It has helped my health. I never liked the taste of any meat either.

I think it is up to the individual to decide whether they can cope with giving up meat. People should not be critisised about the way they eat.

Sam

[EmmaGallen]

Giving up diary would be awful. No chocolate :(

[KateChaos]

Or strawberry milkshake.

[[insert ultra-funky name]]

Someone asked me why i was a vegetarian, i awnsered i didn't want a dead thing inside me.

These next to points were brought to me by a friend (i think they have something to do with buddism or similiar):

1: When you eat a murdered animal the violence used to murder that animal enters your flesh and soul.

2: Everybody (including animals) has their own world, they see it through their own eyes and undertand it in their own way.... when you kill an animal you are killing its world

I don't mean to preach but the thought that meat is a grotesque idea has always bean in my mind subconsciencely (spelling !?!?) ... only in he last 8/9 months have i let myself think about it properly. If you even have an inkling of this thought why do you eat meat??

Yes evolution has meant we eat meat but our race is past evolution. Evolution is fitting into the habitat around you and the human (with disasterous consequences) has learnt to make its habitat fit around itself.

Sorry for getting all deap and technical on you... milkshake, chocolate yum lol.

[kaity221]

I have tried to vegetarian many times, but i dont eat much meat anyway, and i have never succeded because i dont eat a good range of fruit and vegetables. I only ever tried because environmental issues, and climate change, not because of the animals. Now i only buy and eat locally produced, organic meat and dairy products.

[Spirited discussion]

Am i right in thinking that most veggies here live in cities? Very few people in the countryside seem to be veggie, yet are closer to where the animals are killed...

Now I'm not saying every one in the countryside is a farmer or anything - but the abbotoir is just down the road from school (great for biology we do a huge amount of discections) and it stinks, but we see the sheep going on their way to be slaughtered each day, and to be honest they're not any more scared than the sheep who get taken to trading markets or transported to anywhere else. The dam things are just so stupid and I dont see that they can be "in their own world" they're just sheep. And as to humans being superior, yes we are. I dont shed a tear whilst spreading ant poison or rat/mouse poison, I couldnt spread human poison if it was just to stop them eating a bit of food it would be immoral.
I feel more sort of sympathy to cattle and then a lot more then to dogs and chimps but a trillion bulls are worth a single life, we're aware more than they are, its kinda an instinctive loyalty to your own species too.

[[insert ultra-funky name]]

wow..... i wished my morals were like that. life would be so more simple.

[Pioneer]

;12510']Someone asked me why i was a vegetarian, i awnsered i didn't want a dead thing inside me.

These next to points were brought to me by a friend (i think they have something to do with buddism or similiar):

1: When you eat a murdered animal the violence used to murder that animal enters your flesh and soul.

2: Everybody (including animals) has their own world, they see it through their own eyes and undertand it in their own way.... when you kill an animal you are killing its world

I don't mean to preach but the thought that meat is a grotesque idea has always bean in my mind subconsciencely (spelling !?!?) ... only in he last 8/9 months have i let myself think about it properly. If you even have an inkling of this thought why do you eat meat??

Yes evolution has meant we eat meat but our race is past evolution. Evolution is fitting into the habitat around you and the human (with disasterous consequences) has learnt to make its habitat fit around itself.

Sorry for getting all deap and technical on you... milkshake, chocolate yum lol.


Surely plants are dead things, and they go inside you? We're consumers, not primary producers, therefore we cannot subsist without putting dead things inside us, whatever the moral implications.

Animals aren't murdered, legally that has to be against another person, and morally I would say malice has to be involved. Also most animals aren't slaughtered violently, it's a quick ear to ear cut resulting in near painless near instant death.

On the point of destroying Worlds, cows etc. aren't sentient, i.e. they do NOT understand, they react. Therefore their world was never really there, and there is no unique interpretation of the World from one cow to the next is there? Surely not.

[Hamsterwaffle]

I wish I was lucky enough to have a swift near painless death when my time comes, the cow is lucky in that respect.

[Pioneer]

Lol, indeed, not only that but in general livestock are fed well (there are objections and I object to those)

I do see some legitimate reasons not to eat meat, religion obviously is one, and although it seems silly, you do have to listen to your religion, that's the point in it, and it's why I'm not in one :P

Also if you don't like it, my Mum only eats fish, because she doesn't like the taste of other meat, so fair play to her. I myself eat very little red meat, because it tastes stringy and foul.

However, moral reasons hold no water with me, because we have to kill, because a plant doesn't scream, or cry, or bleed doesn't mean it doesn't die, if we don't kill we don't live.

[miss.becky.scott]

i think vegitarianism is not very healthy for people because it isn't as if we have a problem with the amount of livestock we have as a country, also as some other people have said we evolved and were brought up on meat so personally i dont think its a bad thing to eat it.:)

[[insert ultra-funky name]]

Pioneer
Surely plants are dead things, and they go inside you?

Fair awnser, but the way i see plants don't show emotion for eacother. When you put two apple trees (one being the mother of the other) in a spot with one source of lighthe will both cut of the other to get it. However animals (tigers, crocodiles, horses etc.) show nurture, therefor emotion to their young. Plants do not, surely in spiritual terms they are not alive.

Animals aren't murdered, legally that has to be against another person, and morally I would say malice has to be involved. Also most animals aren't slaughtered violently, it's a quick ear to ear cut resulting in near painless near instant death.

According to my morals it is murder- but thats just me. Some animals are not killed properly (when using electricution...totally by accident) and just stunned, then they are skinned alive.

On the point of destroying Worlds, cows etc. aren't sentient, i.e. they do NOT understand, they react. Therefore their world was never really there, and there is no unique interpretation of the World from one cow to the next is there? Surely not.

I don't think any amount of sciencetific evidence will prove this to me but can you give me an some proof or an example of an experiment. That sounds like quite an interesting point and i would like yo know more.

But good on you, most people just laugh and say they don't care if animals suffer or say it tastes good- at least you have a reason.

[Paul]

That's ok! No-one seems to think about the other consequences, I think we are all quite arrogant to it at 1st. Me included, I did it meat for quite a few years when I was younger, and yes I do love bacon sandwiches and ribs! but now i see the animal not the meat.

Its said that in comparison to a normal, healthy meat eater vegetarianism is best, becuase of the dangers of meat and fish to our health. For example, chloestrol, cancer increased risks, mercury etc in fish that we then consume etc.

You extol the benfits to animals, but if humans were a vegan society you realise that we would probably exterminate every animal on the planet* - we keep animals alive because they are useful to us. Farmers kill wolves to prevent them eating sheep - what would happen is that farmers would destroy ecosystems which could support farming of animals as is to provide an area for farming crops.

*If we'd started out as vegan then there wouldn't be dogs either! (seeing as we trained them to herd/hunt animals)

[Miuccia]

I'm a vegetarian and I feel that my carbon footprint is much lower than when I ate meat. But I'm not here to try and persuade other people to become veggies. As long as they respect animals and do their best to buy free range/freedom food, I don't mind.

[faith16120]

You extol the benfits to animals, but if humans were a vegan society you realise that we would probably exterminate every animal on the planet* - we keep animals alive because they are useful to us. Farmers kill wolves to prevent them eating sheep - what would happen is that farmers would destroy ecosystems which could support farming of animals as is to provide an area for farming crops.

*If we'd started out as vegan then there wouldn't be dogs either! (seeing as we trained them to herd/hunt animals)


But the change wouldn't happen drastically, so we would change to suit it.

We wouldn't have no dogs because we have now learned they are great company and are not just for hunting. How many of the people with dogs actually use them to hunt or herd! Not many!!

[faith16120]

Am i right in thinking that most veggies here live in cities? .

I was born in the town but have lived in the country side for many many years, next to many farms actually!

[faith16120]

;12510']Someone asked me why i was a vegetarian, i awnsered i didn't want a dead thing inside me.

These next to points were brought to me by a friend (i think they have something to do with buddism or similiar):

1: When you eat a murdered animal the violence used to murder that animal enters your flesh and soul.

2: Everybody (including animals) has their own world, they see it through their own eyes and undertand it in their own way.... when you kill an animal you are killing its world

I don't mean to preach but the thought that meat is a grotesque idea has always bean in my mind subconsciencely (spelling !?!?) ... only in he last 8/9 months have i let myself think about it properly. If you even have an inkling of this thought why do you eat meat??
.

Can i just say what good reasons they are!

[Hamsterwaffle]

Animals eat other animals, its nature.

[faith16120]

Animals eat other animals, its nature.

But some of us can see the creulty, and find out whats going on behind the scenes, and so want to change our ways.

Animals can't really go to waitrose or tesco and but quorn can they!
But we can

[Miuccia]

"i think vegitarianism is not very healthy for people"

Studies have shown that vegetarian diets can be healthier than diets with meat in. That's why vegetarians pay less for their life insurance.

[mypdavidsmith]

not all animals eat other animals, have you heard of herbavours who only eat plants ext. Some people think it wrong to eat meat. even some religions find it wrong to eat meat.

[[insert ultra-funky name]]

"i think vegitarianism is not very healthy for people"

Studies have shown that vegetarian diets can be healthier than diets with meat in. That's why vegetarians pay less for their life insurance.

YAY !! :D :D

[faith16120]

;14813']YAY !! :D :D

Woop Woop:D :D

[adamlonsdale]

It's like smoking. Its like drinking. It's a choice. If somebody doesnt want to eat meat because they feel it is wrong, who are people to say that its stupid?

I'm a vegetarian.

People make hundreds of choices in a day to day life. Vegetarianism saves animals lives, and leads a healthier lifestyle. it is most certainely not "Stupid".

If you decided you want to be cremated rather then buried at death, how would you feel if somebody said it was "Stupid"

Adam x

[faith16120]

who said it was stupid?

[Cathy Simms]

its not stupid, i wish i was a vegetarian but i cant be because i love eating chicken but i cant eat lamb because i think of all the little lambs in the fields:(

[TheAngriestLeftyInTheWest]

Another fairly compelling argument for vegetarianism is on geographical grounds.

Meat is an inefficient source of energy for humans. It takes way more energy as well as other inputs than other foodstuffs such as wheat. Importantly, it also takes a lot more space.

It is statistically proven that if everyone in the world was vegetarian, there would be enough food.

[adamlonsdale]

Vegetarianism is a very stupid thing, and quite unhealthy. Humans evolved eating meat, its the natural way.

Anyways, quite a few people have said that, that quote is just the first in the thread.

I have never heard of that geographical idea before, but it seems quite logical.

[Paul]

quorn

I don't like it when u decide that you're not going to eat meat and then try and make all your food look like meat! Just decide what you want!

[Paul]

Another fairly compelling argument for vegetarianism is on geographical grounds.

Meat is an inefficient source of energy for humans. It takes way more energy as well as other inputs than other foodstuffs such as wheat. Importantly, it also takes a lot more space.

It is statistically proven that if everyone in the world was vegetarian, there would be enough food.

But there's also enough food for everyone now.

"The world has enough for everyone's need; but not for everyone's greed"

But ignoring that, we have giant surpluses every year, we store them - those in Africa die because the soil is infertile (it would grow grazing plants a lot better than arable crops probably) and they cannot afford seeds or irrigations.

[Paul]

Vegetarianism saves animals lives, and leads a healthier lifestyle.

1 - Vegetarianism does not have a lifestyle, it is a lifestyle.

2 - Vegetarianism does not save the lives of animals - it simply means that the farmer makes less money due to less demand and then ensures that the farmer rears less animals for slaughter (ie loads of baby animals are aborted effectively, or less of the females are impregnated). The difference in the amounts reared for slaughter are not released into a land of sunshine and lollypops, they never exist - a better tactic for the animals would be to encourage the growth of the high cost ethically raised meat.

[matt christodoulou]

Vegetarianism is a very stupid thing, and quite unhealthy. Humans evolved eating meat, its the natural way. Plus Bacon is meat.

What Hamsterwaffle said is very true. You need an balanced diet. Meat is in there. If you just eat vegtables and fish for instance, then you are not eating properly.

[[insert ultra-funky name]]

I can not agree with this argument, i don not eat meat or fish and am prefectly healthy. My best friend, two aunties and cousin are all veggies (yay!) and none of them has ever been ill due to their diets.

Also we bring animals into this world to kill them !! So the meaning of life for these animals is death!! Surely this is not right, the animals obviously do not think they are in this life for death or they would not bother eating, bretahing, drinky etc. This might sound stupid to you but to me its common sense !!

[Cathy Simms]

I don't like it when u decide that you're not going to eat meat and then try and make all your food look like meat! Just decide what you want!

people are vegetarians because they dont like eating animals and as long as you eat things that arent animals but look like meat but i guess thats ok. [if that makes any sense which it probably doesnt]:rolleyes:

[faith16120]

;15738']I can not agree with this argument, i don not eat meat or fish and am prefectly healthy. My best friend, two aunties and cousin are all veggies (yay!) and none of them has ever been ill due to their diets.

Also we bring animals into this world to kill them !! So the meaning of life for these animals is death!! Surely this is not right, the animals obviously do not think they are in this life for death or they would not bother eating, bretahing, drinky etc. This might sound stupid to you but to me its common sense !!

I'm a vegan and its done wonders for my health.
Doctors say I perfectly fine on a vegan diet!

[Miuccia]

"What Hamsterwaffle said is very true. You need an balanced diet. Meat is in there. If you just eat vegtables and fish for instance, then you are not eating properly."

Meat is only necessary because of the protein and iron it contains. So why not eat substitutes rich in protein and iron? Spinach, quorn, dairy products and even fish if you're a piscetarian are all perfectly healthy.

[[insert ultra-funky name]]

"What Hamsterwaffle said is very true. You need an balanced diet. Meat is in there. If you just eat vegtables and fish for instance, then you are not eating properly."

Meat is only necessary because of the protein and iron it contains. So why not eat substitutes rich in protein and iron? Spinach, quorn, dairy products and even fish if you're a piscetarian are all perfectly healthy.


good point and wicked signature

[Gr9er]

I'm a Vegetarian, i don't do it because it's cool, or even because it will save lifes of animals.
I do it because i find it terribly discusting, mainly eating something that was alive and had feelings and felt pain, yeah yeah... lets here the 'well they don't know what death is'... gosh, it's nothing new with the meat eaters when they ask questions like this.
Of course they're going to feel pain, you're just an idiot if you don't think so.

Anyways i'm not going to preach you're all welcome to your choice in life, just this mine :cool:

[CharlieB_90]

Here's how I see it:

If you believe that animals and humans are equals, then we should be allowed to eat meat without question.

[Hamsterwaffle]

I'm a Vegetarian, i don't do it because it's cool, or even because it will save lifes of animals.

What about all the plants that died so you can eat them?

[Paul]

I do it because i find it terribly discusting, mainly eating something that was alive and had feelings and felt pain

Do you eat fish?

[malia]

hey people listen up ,we cant judge people on what they eat. if people want to be vegetarians they can they want to be against animal crulty they can its there dission even though we think its stupid we still cant stop them so let them be them. Thank You

[Mockler]

theres nothing wrong with vegetarian. it is a very civilized way to live.

[CharlieB_90]

hey people listen up ,we cant judge people on what they eat. if people want to be vegetarians they can they want to be against animal crulty they can its there dission even though we think its stupid we still cant stop them so let them be them. Thank You

Usually it's them calling us murdering scum though...

[Mockler]

Usually it's them calling us murdering scum though...

I've never met a vegetarian who has said that to me.

[CharlieB_90]

I've never met a vegetarian who has said that to me.

Lucky you. I've met plenty. One girl at school started bitching when another girl was eating smokey bacon flavour crisps. SWEAR TO GOD.

[Mockler]

Lucky you. I've met plenty. One girl at school started bitching when another girl was eating smokey bacon flavour crisps. SWEAR TO GOD.

LOL. well, I've obviously been lucky then :p

[ciara_squires]

Usually it's them calling us murdering scum though...

I've come across these types usually at demos or have a stall in town or a festival lol

also at climate change demos there's always alot of extreme vegans shouting to stop eating meat to 'save the world' and handing out gazillions of leaflets.

[TheAngriestLeftyInTheWest]

hey people listen up ,we cant judge people on what they eat. if people want to be vegetarians they can they want to be against animal crulty they can its there dission even though we think its stupid we still cant stop them so let them be them. Thank You

Well I happen to believe that a giant teapot orbits the Earth. Still wanna just let me be me?

What exactly is wrong with challenging people's ideas? I would say it's a positive service. Only when your opinion has been challenged by the most fervent critics of it can it truly be said to stand alone. If it fails the challenge then that's even better! It means you've discovered the truth and the truth is a precious thing indeed.

Far more precious than being safe inside one's own little bubble of ignorance, unaware of the opinions of others and all they can teach us.

So if we think an opinion is stupid, let us speak up and challenge each other so that both sides can walk away a little wiser. To do otherwise is nothing short of intellectual cowardice. Thank you!

[Mockler]

Well I happen to believe that a giant teapot orbits the Earth. Still wanna just let me be me?

What exactly is wrong with challenging people's ideas? I would say it's a positive service. Only when your opinion has been challenged by the most fervent critics of it can it truly be said to stand alone. If it fails the challenge then that's even better! It means you've discovered the truth and the truth is a precious thing indeed.

Far more precious than being safe inside one's own little bubble of ignorance, unaware of the opinions of others and all they can teach us.

So if we think an opinion is stupid, let us speak up and challenge each other so that both sides can walk away a little wiser. To do otherwise is nothing short of intellectual cowardice. Thank you!

I just happen to agree with every thing you just said.

[Gr9er]

Do you eat fish?

No, I don't eat fish.

Usually it's them calling us murdering scum though...

I don't think that, you're only living your life as you please, wether you eat meat or not, you're entitled to living as you want :)

Well I happen to believe that a giant teapot orbits the Earth. Still wanna just let me be me?

What exactly is wrong with challenging people's ideas? I would say it's a positive service. Only when your opinion has been challenged by the most fervent critics of it can it truly be said to stand alone. If it fails the challenge then that's even better! It means you've discovered the truth and the truth is a precious thing indeed.

Far more precious than being safe inside one's own little bubble of ignorance, unaware of the opinions of others and all they can teach us.

So if we think an opinion is stupid, let us speak up and challenge each other so that both sides can walk away a little wiser. To do otherwise is nothing short of intellectual cowardice. Thank you!

Challenging is good, i'd rather speak , not to preach or anything, but just to let you know why i do it, rather than sit back and say i don't have a reason.

Like i said earlier, i don't eat meat because i believe it saves animals, in reality me turning vegetarian isn't going to stop animals really dying, it just means that the market has one less customer, being me.

I do it because i just find the idea of eating something that was alive rather off putting, but that's my opinion, and i'm entitled to it :) :cool:

[CharlieB_90]

I don't think that, you're only living your life as you please, wether you eat meat or not, you're entitled to living as you want :)



I know you're not all like that I just seem to be around a lot of ones who are. I have a lot of respect for veggies cos believe me, I tried to be one myself, it lasted till christmas, so well done. :p

[Sam Bumby]

And then what? :D You ate turkey?

[bananacustard]

Woot for vegetarians! And everyone else.

I think it is perfectly fine. It's a statement of views.

[soph41190]

It's just food....

[Sam Bumby]

You're allowed to eat what you want

[PSK]

Guys
A main argument that resurfaces a lot is the economic one: if we were all vegetarians, think of all the farmers who'd loose their jobs! I think that's a little short-sighted..

1st of all, being a vegetarian is a matter of ethics. Were you a spiritual person, you'd realize that each living being on this earth has the same worth as the other, for ultimately all is part of the same whole. From this basis, there would be no need for you to willingly slaughter an animal for your own good, having the knowledge that you can survive in perfect health without having to scratch a living animal.

If you want to take it from an economist's point of view: the world goes vegetarian; many farmers lose their jobs (not as many as you think for the majority of farming comes from growing crops, not livestock) and unemployment soars. Yet what do you think all those ex-meat eaters are now gonna eat? Take Schumpeter's Creative Destruction and what do you get: the transition of livestock farmers to growing soya crops etc..

From an ecologist, environmentalist, economist and politician's point of view:
In this era of water scarcity (due to mismanagement), it's important to note that it takes 2,000 litres of water to grow a kilo of vegetables but 15,000 litres to produce a kilo of beef - and people are eating more meat. Want to avoid a giant crisis? Start rationing water where agriculture wastes it, move towards a vegetarian diet.

The UN recently made an enquiry into the main causes of green house gas emissions: 3rd was transport, 2nd was IT, and guess who was the number one contributor to our green house effect? Livestock!

As Mr. Albert Einstein puts it: "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet."

[Paul]

1st of all, being a vegetarian is a matter of ethics. Were you a spiritual person, you'd realize that each living being on this earth has the same worth as the other, for ultimately all is part of the same whole. From this basis, there would be no need for you to willingly slaughter an animal for your own good, having the knowledge that you can survive in perfect health without http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/27269/eVerseID/27276 - Bible says I can eat it :) (however it can be interpreted differently -1 (http://cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/RA/k/1049/Clean-Unclean-Meats.htm)-2 (http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/Answers/food/mark_7.html)-)
[QUOTE=PSK;112203]If you want to take it from an economist's point of view: the world goes vegetarian; many farmers lose their jobs (not as many as you think for the majority of farming comes from growing crops, not livestock) and unemployment soars. Yet what do you think all those ex-meat eaters are now gonna eat? Take Schumpeter's Creative Destruction and what do you get: the transition of livestock farmers to growing soya crops etc..
What about goats and other livestock which are reared on inaccessible or overly steep land - who could plant crops profitably there?

[Mockler]

What about goats and other livestock which are reared on inaccessible or overly steep land - who could plant crops profitably there?

when you take an ethical lifestyle and start arguing against it because of economics you end up with the slave trade lasting longer.

[Paul]

when you take an ethical lifestyle and start arguing against it because of economics you end up with the slave trade lasting longer.

Why is vegetarianism especially ethical?

[Mockler]

not eating the flesh of living things sounds pretty morally good to me.

[Hamsterwaffle]

not eating the flesh of living things sounds pretty morally good to me.
But then if we apply the principle further, we become aware of how absurd it is. For example Corn Flakes, what did that maize ever do to you?

[Mockler]

But then if we apply the principle further, we become aware of how absurd it is. For example Corn Flakes, what did that maize ever do to you?

by your reckoning it would be ok to eat humans then would it?

I'm not saying everyone should be a vegetarian... I am simply pointing out that the people who are have the moral highground on eating issues.

I'm not a vegetarian but I have a certain amount of respect for the people who are.

[orcprocess]

by your reckoning it would be ok to eat humans then would it?

Humans and animals are different.

[Darryl'Libertarian'Jones]

I'm not saying everyone should be a vegetarian... I am simply pointing out that the people who are have the moral highground on eating issues.

I'm not a vegetarian but I have a certain amount of respect for the people who are.[/QUOTE]

We've evolved to be hunters, why waste what makes us human?

Humans and animals are different.

I'm not speaking in favour of canibalism but, we are animals and animals eat other animals (only in rare cases do animals eat other animals of the same species) so there's nothing wrong with us doing so. Altough I would say that we should treat the animals we eat with respect. No battery farming.

[CharlieB_90]

And then what? :D You ate turkey?

Yep. Infact, the only non meat product on the table were sprouts, so I gave up. :p

[Mockler]

Humans and animals are different.

so are animals and maize.

[orcprocess]

so are animals and maize.

Indeed they are.

[Sam Bumby]

Yep. Infact, the only non meat product on the table were sprouts, so I gave up. :p

No potatoes? :o

[Paul]

No potatoes? :o

Roasted in turkey fat probably!

[Sam Bumby]

So would the vegetables probably :D

[Mockler]

Indeed they are.

kk, just so long as you understand the point I was making.

[Paul]

So would the vegetables probably :D

Except for the sprouts, which are boiled!

[Sam Bumby]

I hate sprouts

[Tod collis]

i can uderstand vegans becuse they have nothing to do with anything that has aniamal stuff within it. but vegetarians, i don't understand, becuse they don't eat meat... but some will where leather shoes, that are from a cow, and possibly where clothes which have some animal fur within,

[RATMforlife]

I used to be vegitarian (from birth till about 16) at the word of the mother superior; she always used the arguement that she never stopped me trying meat but secretly she clearly had an influence. now I don't particularly see any ethical dilema in eating animals or for that matter humans and I odo on occassionas eat the first. There is an arguement however that vegitarianism should be made compulsory as the meat industry produces 20% of our global emmisions and assuming you believe in Global Warming has a direct bad influence on our planet.

[RATMforlife]

not eating the flesh of living things sounds pretty morally good to me.

On what grounds; besides it's not liuke I go into a shop, buy a whole live cow and eat it's flesh, I eat a dead frozen ones muscle silly.

[ciara_squires]

just heard on Radio 2 that it's Vegetarian Week this week!

i did try going vegetarian once, healthier and better for the enviroment especially getting leaflets at climate change demos about the meat industry and how it's a huge percentage of global emissions, but chicken and duck is so damn nice!

[morton700]

just heard on Radio 2 that it's Vegetarian Week this week!

i did try going vegetarian once, healthier and better for the enviroment especially getting leaflets at climate change demos about the meat industry and how it's a huge percentage of global emissions, but chicken and duck is so damn nice!

That is the problem with trying to make everybody a vegetarian for the environment ... so many people like meat that they won't want to give it up.

[Paul]

the mother superior

Were you raised by nuns?

[peaceangel]

What! Really?
I dont even know why i am not allowed to eat pigs. I think you might be right or something.

I think We are not allowed to Eat Pigs because they are Dirty or something. yes That is True

and we are not Allowed to eat Cows becuz some people in our Religion Worship them :confused:

I really hate these sort of rules but I cant change them so i have to follow them as my 'Duty"

what religion are you? my friends a hare krishna and they dont eat meat because they believe in reincarnation, and you could have been that animal in your past life.

[e_inskip]

I'm vegetarian and have been all my life, I have never ate meat or fish and will not ever eat it either. I think murdering animals for food is disgusting, also I don't understand meat-eaters that eat chicken, pigs etc. but won't eat stuff like horses', dogs, hamsters etc. ??

[Jamest]

I'm vegetarian and have been all my life, I have never ate meat or fish and will not ever eat it either. I think murdering animals for food is disgusting, also I don't understand meat-eaters that eat chicken, pigs etc. but won't eat stuff like horses', dogs, hamsters etc. ??
I would eat horses and dogs, if given the option to try.

It's not "murder", they are not human, they are bred for eating.

I love meat and I think it is rather tasty.

[e_inskip]

I would eat horses and dogs, if given the option to try.

It's not "murder", they are not human, they are bred for eating.

I love meat and I think it is rather tasty.

We are animals, just like them. Would you eat a human?! It is murder, it's killing something - which is murder! And not all animals are bred for eating, only the genetically modified ones are. There is also tasty food which isn't meat aswell.

[Jamest]

We are animals, just like them. Would you eat a human?! It is murder, it's killing something - which is murder! And not all animals are bred for eating, only the genetically modified ones are. There is also tasty food which isn't meat aswell.
I wouldn't eat a human because they are of higher intelligence. However I would eat a human, if it was down to life or death.

Most chickens are bred for eating.

[e_inskip]

I wouldn't eat a human because they are of higher intelligence. However I would eat a human, if it was down to life or death.

Most chickens are bred for eating.

Why does intelligence come down to this? Animals are intelligent in different ways to our intelligence, so you can't compare.

[Paul]

I know of someone, a vegetarian for 20 years, who now eats meat.

They didn't like the idea that vegetarianism means getting rid of the animals in our countryside - so they go to the farm and pick which animal they want, they know its name, how it was reared, etc. They then have it killed [humanely] and butchered up, they put it in the freezer and use every part - using the bones for stock etc.

[Jamest]

Animals are intelligent in different ways to our intelligence, so you can't compare.
They do not feel human emotion. Most animals know how to eat, sleep, reproduce and hide and that is how far their thinking goes.

[e_inskip]

They do not feel human emotion. Most animals know how to eat, sleep, reproduce and hide and that is how far their thinking goes.

They still have feelings!

[Dirk/DSF]

murdering

It is murder,

which is murder!

Secretly psychotic?

They do not feel human emotion. Most animals know how to eat, sleep, reproduce and hide and that is how far their thinking goes.

I know a lot of humans who are restricted to these lines of thinking as well.

[e_inskip]

Not psychotic, just very angry about the MURDER of animals! :P

[Dirk/DSF]

Not psychotic, just very angry about the MURDER of animals! :P

I could MURDER a pint right now. ;)

I'm vegetarian myself, actually. Did you join the group? I used to have really extreme ALF-style politics. I don't any more, but a leftover trait is that I won't eat meat - there's just something about the knowledge that the lump of flesh on your plate used to belong to a lamb or cow or whatever. Plus, I know what happens to the poor things, too.

Anyway, it's good to meet you, by the way. I'll leave you to MURDER peoples' points once more.

[e_inskip]

I could MURDER a pint right now. ;)

I'm vegetarian myself, actually. Did you join the group? I used to have really extreme ALF-style politics. I don't any more, but a leftover trait is that I won't eat meat - there's just something about the knowledge that the lump of flesh on your plate used to belong to a lamb or cow or whatever. Plus, I know what happens to the poor things, too.

Anyway, it's good to meet you, by the way. I'll leave you to MURDER peoples' points once more.

A pint? I would love one too, thanks :)
And yeah i joined the group. Yeah, i think it's disgusting, i really don't understand why poeple eat it, it's so confusing to me :/
Nice to meet you too :)
And i love murdering people's points :D :P

[Dirk/DSF]

i really don't understand why poeple eat it,

The taste? I remember I used to really miss bacon the first few months.

[Conzales]

I could MURDER a pint right now. ;)



I want a pint! :D

[Dirk/DSF]

I want a pint! :D

I'd have to hop on two trains to reach you. However, do you know the Lochalsh area particularly well?

[e_inskip]

The taste? I remember I used to really miss bacon the first few months.

I wouldn't know as I've never tasted any meat but surely you can find vegetarian stuff that you think tastes as nice?

[Dirk/DSF]

I wouldn't know as I've never tasted any meat but surely you can find vegetarian stuff that you think tastes as nice?

Definitely! I love the quorn products. Oh, i'm actually in love with the Linda McCartney lasagna. My boyfriend's almost jealous. ;)

[e_inskip]

Definitely! I love the quorn products. Oh, i'm actually in love with the Linda McCartney lasagna. My boyfriend's almost jealous. ;)

I LOVE Linda McCartney sausages and pies, not sure whether they still do them as I haven't seen them for a while though :(
I take it you're boyfriend's not a vegetarian then?

[Dirk/DSF]

I LOVE Linda McCartney sausages and pies, not sure whether they still do them as I haven't seen them for a while though :(

The country pies, you mean? I got some from the co-op just a couple weeks ago.

I take it you're boyfriend's not a vegetarian then?

He isn't, but I meant he's jealous that I love the lasagna so much. lol

[Conzales]

I'd have to hop on two trains to reach you. However, do you know the Lochalsh area particularly well?

Ah the Kyle!
I have been there many a time, although I have always been by the unethical auto-mobile.

[Conzales]

The taste? I remember I used to really miss bacon the first few months.

Bacon is more addictive than cigarettes. I'm living proof of that fact.

[e_inskip]

The country pies, you mean? I got some from the co-op just a couple weeks ago.

Yeah them, I can't seem to get any where I live :(
Very sad times for me.
Send me some? lol

[Dirk/DSF]

Ah the Kyle!
I have been there many a time,

Oh, you should pop in next time you go!

although I have always been by the unethical auto-mobile.

Tut-tut-tut.

[Dirk/DSF]

Send me some?

What, pies in the post?:eek:

[Conzales]

What, pies in the post?:eek:

http://www.piesbypost.co.uk/


It is possible!

[e_inskip]

What, pies in the post?:eek:

Maybe not such a good idea lol.

[e_inskip]

http://www.piesbypost.co.uk/


It is possible!

That's hilarious! I might buy one, just for the fun of it :p

[e_inskip]

Oh min. order is 10 pies :/
I don't want that many, also £10 postage!! Shocking.
Rip-off pies!

[Dirk/DSF]

http://www.piesbypost.co.uk/


It is possible!

Oh my invisble-non-existant-man-in-the-sky!

[Conzales]

Oh min. order is 10 pies :/
I don't want that many, also £10 postage!! Shocking.
Rip-off pies!

You could post yourself to the shop for less than that!

[kylet15]

You won't see me turning into a Vegetarian any time soon. I like eating meats and there are several protiens and vitamins that you can only get from meats.

And, it isn't murder, its called THE FOOD CHAIN.

[b0ggled]

Vegetarianism is a very stupid thing, and quite unhealthy.

idiot, actually being veggie, vegan, raw or macrobiotic is MUCH healthier than eating meat. The press just sell you the story that meat is healthier so that the meat industry sell more meat.

I am vegan and am WAY healthier than all my friends (except the raw ones!)

Try it some time.

[Hamsterwaffle]

idiot, actually being veggie, vegan, raw or macrobiotic is MUCH healthier than eating meat. The press just sell you the story that meat is healthier so that the meat industry sell more meat.

I am vegan and am WAY healthier than all my friends (except the raw ones!)

Try it some time.
Is there a form of vegetarianism that allows for bacon?

[Jamest]

idiot, actually being veggie, vegan, raw or macrobiotic is MUCH healthier than eating meat. The press just sell you the story that meat is healthier so that the meat industry sell more meat.

I am vegan and am WAY healthier than all my friends (except the raw ones!)

Try it some time.
Human's have been eating meat since the beginning, why change now?

And "idiot" isn't an appropriate form of communication on here.

[Dirk/DSF]

idiot, actually being veggie, vegan, raw or macrobiotic is MUCH healthier than eating meat.

Actually, i disagree. Red meat contains a lot of iron. The only forms of iron in a vegetarian diet are in foods like spinach and broccoli, unless you take supplements. Also, meat is far easier to digest and extract minerals from than vegetative matter.