View Full Version : Faith Schools
make.me.smile
03-01-2008, 13:56
I think they should be abolished to be quite honest. To me they seem like just another form of segregation and of making people believe that their religion is what defines them. They create barriers and encourage prejudice. What do you think (I know quite a lot of people on here actually go to faith schools, would like to hear your opinions)?
Jess16123
03-01-2008, 14:10
No I do not think faith schools should be abolished. Because it helps the pupils understand there faith and as a christian who goes to a non-faith school and finds it very hard with bullying etc I think faith schools are a good idea.
But links between schools should be encouraged so pupils can understand each other and there religion.
Al Young
03-01-2008, 14:16
I agree with you on all counts.
Schools should be for learning truths and skills.
Hamsterwaffle
03-01-2008, 15:34
I went to a COE school, and when I went to high school I was shocked by the behaviour of some of the other pupils in the school who had gone to a non-religious school. When you are young being good for the sake of being good doesn't appeal, being good because you will go to heaven does .
make.me.smile
03-01-2008, 15:36
I'm not starting a discussion over whether people should be religious or not, that's their choice, I'm just saying that religion should not have the power to seperate people at such a young age, making them think that they are in some way different.
all of societies rights and wrongs are based on Christian values - wrong to kill, wrong to steal. Most people have a concsious. Doesn't matter whether you believe or not.
I went to a Catholic school and it was one of the highest performing schools in East Sussex. And even though it was mainly Catholic, there were still Protestants, muslims etc.
People arent being segreagted by faith schools, in the end, its a choice whether you want to go to one or not.
make.me.smile
03-01-2008, 16:52
It's not always a choice. It isn't exactly "welcoming" towards those who do not believe. I think it does encourage the point of view that faith changes what kind of person you are, and I do not agree with that in any way. Also, your education and your religion should not have an effect on each other.
My personal opinion is that any faith school that is funded in anyway by the Government should have all funding from the LSC withdrawn. I have no problem with faith schools as long as they are not funded by the government.
Gotlieb Alexander
03-01-2008, 18:15
No institution which recieves public funding should be able to discriminate against a young child because of their parent's religion.
The government should not fund any institution which exists to force religious views on innocent children.
We all know that Christians wouldnt tolerate being denied a place in a school because of their faith so why should a non-christian be denied a place because of their faith.
Hamsterwaffle
03-01-2008, 18:48
I don't think schools should be allowed to deny places based on religion, but they should be allowed to religion as a base to teach children morals.
brownieiscool
03-01-2008, 19:12
The problem is it doesnt work both ways. I go to a Church of england school and there are children of allfaiths here, from Catholic to Muslim yet the schools for Islam and Siks dont have any other religions at all.
Definately agree with you here. Their only purpose is to segregate children from coming into contact with other religious beliefs and are only a form of discrimination. Just look at N.I., there are hardly and protestant and Catholic mixed schools in the entire area! I think its a shame religion is so privileged ...they certainly shouldn't be funded.
If someone created a "tory" school (seeing as religion is a set of beliefs, I see little difference), there would be outcry that people were segregated on such views and that children were force-fed political propoganda (some would call it indoctrination). And it certainly wouldn't be state-funded. I wonder how a catholic school would treat a gay christian applying for a place?
I also think their curriculum should be monitored. Schools should be about teaching truths and preparing for work, not praying and being taught (as happens in some schools) how the biological fact of evolution is a conspiracy of lies...
but they should be allowed to religion as a base to teach children morals.
Why. I'm a perfectly moral person and I'm, athiest. Why not just teach morals by themselves and leave religion out of it for everyone? After all, its the parents or Church's job to teach religion if they really want to, not the state. Did you know that something like 60% of Americans think Athiests are inherently immoral? I eblieve this is untrue.
It's not always a choice. It isn't exactly "welcoming" towards those who do not believe. I think it does encourage the point of view that faith changes what kind of person you are, and I do not agree with that in any way. Also, your education and your religion should not have an effect on each other.
100% agree.
all of societies rights and wrongs are based on Christian values - wrong to kill, wrong to steal. Most people have a concsious. Doesn't matter whether you believe or not.
That's a bit arrogant, there are many non-christian countries who do pretty well, in fact lets look at the most christian country in the West...USA..they have almost no problems with crime, do they? And seeing as the greeks and Romans were doing pretty well before Jesus came along... or the fact Britian already had a code of law 200 years before Christians arrive... If you mean Christianity shares many of the same rights of society is accurate. To say they are based on Christianity is just a lie to preserve christianity in America among Republicans, as is the lie America was founded a christian nation (as Washington himself stated otherwise).
I've probably gone a bit beyond the argument here, just thought I get it all out...
Hamsterwaffle
03-01-2008, 23:07
People in primary schools only do something if they think they either have to or will get something from it, hence the idea of heaven and hell.
I did well in primary school and I don't believe in heaven and hell. Isn't the idea of getting a good career and learning incentive enough to do well (it should be anyway, after all that is definately scientifically proven).
Hamsterwaffle
03-02-2008, 09:56
When your in primary school the idea of getting a good job and whatnot isn't on your mind. It works as motivation in high school but not primary.
make.me.smile
03-02-2008, 13:10
So how come there's so many people who know the difference between right and wrong without being religious? I learnt not to hit the others in primary without the threat that if I did I'd end up in some eternal nightmare...
:Vampiress:
03-02-2008, 13:53
I totally agree with make.me.smile.
When i was younger my dad wanted to send me to a faith school when i was starting secondary but my mum told him to shut the hell up and they argued about it for weeks until they compromised on sending me to a girls school and i feel like ive dodged a really spiky and nasty bullet.
If i had gone i wouldn't know all the life lessons i have had how to adapt to society and different situations. No parent has the right to force religion or their own beliefs on a child that much that there segregating them from a entire section of society.
Gotlieb Alexander
03-02-2008, 14:33
I don't think schools should be allowed to deny places based on religion, but they should be allowed to religion as a base to teach children morals.
But which religion?
How would you feel if the only school you could go to was teaching Muslim morals?
If i had gone i wouldn't know all the life lessons i have had how to adapt to society and different situations.
i completely disagree.
I went to a catholic girls comp for 5 years. I am now in a catholic boys school for 6th form. i do not think that in anyway it has stopped me from experiencing life to its full. it is not like faith schools are insular places who close their doors to other religions or people with no religion. if you decide during your time their that you do not want to hold these beliefs anymore they do not kick your out or judge you differently.
On a more social level i think faith schools are what stops middle class parents from going private which is always good.
Hamsterwaffle
03-02-2008, 15:29
I don't care which religion people teach, but if presented a choice then Anglicanism seems like the best choice, it is the state religion after all.
if one is in favor of scraping faith schools surely by the same principle private and grammar schools should also be axed. then it is all fair. An interesting thought.
Hamsterwaffle
03-02-2008, 17:04
Grammar schools, private schools and faith schools are completely different. Grammar schools are about giving the better education to the smart, private schools are about giving the better education to those who pay for it and faith schools are about teaching children religious values. A grammar or private school could also be a faith school.
they are all selective.
grammar on the grounds of intelligence
faith on religion
private on how rich you are (clever would help too)
all of them have some reason why everyone is not entitled to go there. i say that if your axing one axe them all because by only criticizing one we are at risk of looking like hypocrites. i have nothing against any i'm just saying that if its a principle we should apply it to all and not only those that suit us.
oh and state funded faith schools tend to give a better education than the normal non-faith comp. they also do not just teach you to be a member of which ever religion it is. i was taught evolution at a catholic school and it certainly wasn't adam and eve.
Spirited discussion
03-02-2008, 19:47
i completely disagree.
I went to a catholic girls comp for 5 years. I am now in a catholic boys school for 6th form. i do not think that in anyway it has stopped me from experiencing life to its full.
And how was the sex change?
I don't think schools should be allowed to deny places based on religion, but they should be allowed to religion as a base to teach children morals.
I compleatly agree, I actually dont have a problem with faith schools but with the selection process and curriculum. The school is perfectly welcome to preech to children, though not to brainwash - religion should be kept to the assemblies. But certainly no selction of people based upon religion that is basic discrimination! I'd argue against single sex schools on the same basis.
What is the justification for saying that only catholics are allowed in certain schools? Most CofE schools dont discrimate, its the minority religions that feel that they have to in order to keep a majority of whatever religion they ascribe to.
And as to the argument on better exam results at faith schools, the best performing primary here is a very specifically non-school.
The faith should not stop children from learning science, as with the theory of evoloution, but as the theory of evoloution is only a theory and as yet unproven I see no reason to not alow the introduction of other theories, so long as they are expressed as theories and not fact.
And how was the sex change?
hilarious you are :p well i feel it is a whole new step forward for me :D
but seriously i am still female.....i think.....and.....my 6th form is part of a boys school but takes girls in the last two years. i apologize for not making myself clearer.
I think faith school are a good idea in principal because they try to teach young people morals and values of lifevia religion, obviously one can still possess a good set of morals and values without going to a faith school but chances are just a tiny fraction lower hence why parents would rather not take the chance.
In england, i think we should only have christian faith schools as it is a christian country, i think any other form of faith school is too segregational
Hamsterwaffle
03-02-2008, 22:10
Another point on why faith schools being Christian; compared to other religions, it has very little restrictions apart from be good. Most other religions tell you what you can eat and how to dress, which can cause problems in schools.
In england, i think we should only have christian faith schools as it is a christian country, i think any other form of faith school is too segregational
Why does everyone keep saying we're a christian country? About 40% of people are not christian. True, that is a minority, but 40% are certainly not a group to be ignored like that. And there are even fewer practising christians...
And why should christians be allowed to force their religious values down over people's throats, but not other religions? To they have some "devine" right? And christian schools can be just as segregational as other religons (look at N.I.).
grammar on the grounds of intelligence
faith on religion
private on how rich you are (clever would help too)
all of them have some reason why everyone is not entitled to go there. i say that if your axing one axe them all because by only criticizing one we are at risk of looking like hypocrites.
Grammar and wealth are something your born with, religion is something you choose.
Hamsterwaffle
03-03-2008, 13:28
Well we both are and aren't a christian country. England(and Wales?) has a state religion in the church of England. While Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own forms of Christianity. Seeing as 60% are Christian, it would be the democratic thing to do in giving Christian schools preference over other religions.
If you mean there would be more christian schools compared to other religions, seeing as their more christians, then that would be correct. I'm just disagreeing with Hanisha about only allowing Chrstian faith schools.
I think faith schools are bad enough, let alone banning ones of different faith.
I think faith schools are a good thing. I go to one and not only does it achieve excellent results, but it also has a better atmosphere and better behaviour then other nonfaith schools in the area. We don't get religion shoved at us, we are in no way being brainwashed as we spend alot of the time learning about other religions and there are a lot of people of different faiths in my school.
We do get taught the theory of evolution, in fact my RE teacher herself told us that the adam and eve version was made up long ago just to try and explain things and that we shouldn't take it seriously
I'm not saying all schools are like this, but those who don't receieve state-funding also do need not follow state curriculum, and so many do end up shoving religion or pseudo-sciene down students throats. I'm saying these schools need to be monitored like any school for the students own education.
:Vampiress:
03-04-2008, 13:53
ALL faith schools are wrong.
Just because lets say Catholic ones are laid back does not mean others are. Why teach someone to base their entire life on a book or maybe two.
I checked out some religious schools websites and most have entire hours set aside for "Islamic study" or "Bible reading". Especially for religions which teach women's place as below men which almost all religions do. Religious schools are just a way to condition children that's all.
And why should Chritianity be the main focus point for this country if we kept religious schools? Like Matt said 40% are not christians and if we add non-practicing it would most likely be about 60-70%.
No one should have a entire seperate school just for people with the same religion as them it's segregation in itself. School is to learn science as it is, life and the world around not with religious beliefs fudged on top.
miss_india_louise
03-04-2008, 15:25
I went to a catholic primary school, but the nearest secondary school (catholic stylee) was too far away. I got a great veiw of the world, guys and girls were equal and when we did reproduction in yr 6 it was the same as what we did in year 7. Loads my mates go to catholic schools and the only difference is there unfiform has a blazer. After church we were talking about the world andthey def. know how it was made. Only stupid people who don't realise the world around them shouldn't go to them.
Hamsterwaffle
03-04-2008, 15:59
In my CoE primary school the only time involving bible reading was R.E and we also studied Judaism, we weren't taught to hate, we were told to respect.
make.me.smile
03-04-2008, 17:39
You don't need religion to teach people respect.
Jess16123
03-04-2008, 17:56
Well I don't think you need religion to teach people respect but if a parent has decided they want their child to go to a faith school they should get that choice. Also I went to a c of e primary school that taught us to respect other faiths alot more than my non-religion secondary school has done.
make.me.smile
03-04-2008, 17:58
Not all faith schools teach that though, that's the point. And I find it kind of wrong that you're born into your religion in the first place....but that's a whole other discussion.
Angelicus
03-04-2008, 18:50
I got to a catholoic girls school and went to a Cof E primary school. I think personally that a lot of what you hear isn't nessercarily true or at least extreme ends of the scale. And to be honest going to a catholic school (or any faith school) doesn't mean that you have to believe what you're told. From the sounds of things most people here wouldn't just believe something if a teacher goes to you and says theres a God, this is why, this is what your supposed to follow, do that do this. What makes you think that those who go to a faith school are any different.
The one thing that does annoy me is the fact that we learn generally only about our religion wheras I think it would be really interesting to be able to learn about different faiths as well. However we do also learn about Islam and I think there might be something in the GCSE sylabus. One of the other things I find annoying is how much time is given over to RE but they are generally accurate and the teachers don't tend to shy away from any awkward questions.
I would say though that there is a lot of religious background going on though it is nowhere near as extreme as several hours of bible reading! We are supposed to (though teachers hardly ever do) stop at midday and say the angelus. We also have a religious theme/background to most assemblies. There is a mass said on a Tuesday morining at the chapel for a different form group to go to each week. During advent there is a chance to go to confession and in advent all the forms go to mass. There is also mass on feast days etc. Also at the begining of exams a prayer is said, which is actually quite calming. At the momment I have to RE lessons a week, in year 8 I had three and in year 7 I had two. WE have to do RE GCSE. I'm not certain how many lessons you have for that. That is the total religious based things we have to do as far as I can remember. It looks a lot but I don't think that is actually that much. If anyone wants to check that stuff the school websites http://www.stpaulgl.bham.sch.uk/page_viewer.asp?category=Home&sid=1
I don't know if anything is on there about the religious life.
I think that going to a faith school has actually been a good experience, because in a way it challenges you to think about religion because you are shown it everyday so you have to think about whether you agree with what your saying, what you actually believe etc. Also I wouldn't say that we are brainwashed in any way...the biological way of teaching about sex is no different than it was in year 5!! The only thing regards that is to do with the relationship aspect of sex which of course they give the Catholic line on. However they could hardly give any other! I also feel that at a faith school you might get teachers who are more concerned about the welfare and enriching of their students.
I'll probably think of something else to say (don't scream) but well done for getting to the end of this long post :D
Gotlieb Alexander
03-04-2008, 19:03
if one is in favor of scraping faith schools surely by the same principle private and grammar schools should also be axed. then it is all fair. An interesting thought.
I totaly disagree that private school and faith schools can be considered together, in fact i am not too opposed to private faith schools. If we want to educate our children in a way that ensures they dont get a balanced and rational education then we should pay for it.
:Vampiress:
03-05-2008, 10:05
Exactly.
Faith schools are another form of social control, open schools give people a chance to learn first hand and respect other cultures how are you suppose to know what to do and what not to do around cultures or beliefs and such if all you know is the people from the religion being taught around you.
Like in America they refuse to teach Darwin, what's to stop private schools doing that?
make.me.smile
03-05-2008, 11:42
I agree 100%. This is also a problem I have with single-sex schools as I think they just create a lot of confusion on how to act around the opposite sex etc (ie most girls I know from girl's schools end up slutty...not discriminating or anything)! It's just unnecassary, if you want your child to learn about your religion - do it yourself!
Afroman_Myles
03-05-2008, 12:18
Is it not part of the Government's agenda to ensure that different religions are taught to the entire popualtion as part of modern day multicultural Britain?? How can segregating religons and educating them separately support any measure of multiculturalism that this country claims to have?
I understand that there are some practical advantages of having a single religion school - such as the past deabte on whether head-scarves were allowed to be worn in a mixed school, etc. But unless children of different religions find ways of coping with each other when they are young, then there won't be much hope for integration when they later become adults.
:Vampiress:
03-05-2008, 12:26
Exactly. Why divide our society even more with faith schools? our country is weak because society is so divided we need to bring it together not set it further apart.
Exactly, its not the governments job to teach people their religion. Education is completely seperate affair and we should focus on helping all schools. Just look at Northern Ireland, where most people go to seperate Catholic and Protestant schools.
My school's a good one, better than every school in the area that doesn't force kids to take the 11+. Teachers are good, funding is poor, but the students learn loads because we're selective (catholic). Have to do RE for GCSE though :rolleyes: ...
mkelleher
03-05-2008, 16:55
A big argument on this thread tends to be that people will feel that their religion defines them if they attend a Faith School. As a Roman Catholic and a pupil at a strong Catholic school in Fulham I believe that my religion is one of the major aspects that defines me as a person due to it playing such a large role in my life. I am very happy at my school, the chance to have in depth conversations about religion with my classmates is one of the thins I enjoy at the school.
Angelicus
03-05-2008, 18:16
We hardly get any funding either as a faith school. In fact when the school started I don't think we got any money at all and they (the nuns) set up the school from their own finance. however that was a 100 years ago......
James Handy
03-05-2008, 19:21
Have you ever seen an eve-angelical faith school? They exist in the UK and they incorporate science with religion! NO JOKE!!!
Gotlieb Alexander
03-05-2008, 19:43
If i set up an atheist faith school what would people do then?
Bearing in mind i would refuse to admit anyone who was religious or whos parents believe in god
What would happen if I set up a "tory" school (seeing as religion is just a set of beliefs anyway) and only admitted politically-correct students. If history and science lessons were dedicated to showing up how great the party was compared to others. People from other "politics" would be banned. The result would be outcry.
Not least of these would be that children of conservative or labour parents would have no understanding of what conseravtive or labour means, it would be complete discrimination. Yet...how can 5 year old belief in a religion then they don't even understand what religion is?
As a Roman Catholic and a pupil at a strong Catholic school in Fulham I believe that my religion is one of the major aspects that defines me as a person due to it playing such a large role in my life.
Surely then that is your personal choice. Why should it interfere with your and others education. Religion doesn't define everyone as I think you'll agree. And if you enjoy discussing faith with friends, you can still do it at a religiously appropriate place, like at Church.
Hamsterwaffle
03-06-2008, 15:05
While I cannot speak for other schools, my CoE primary school didn't ask what the religion of the pupils was, and didn't allow religion to interfere with lessons. (Also the idea that you are "lying to god" helped the teachers get pupils to admit to wrong doing)
Pupils should be taught to own up to teachers without some dubious supreme being threatening to punish them for all time being brought into the classroom... emphasis on should.
And another question, what's your faith schools policy on homosexual pupils. Just theoretically, seeing as some are christian and and you said your school allow any pupils in?
Hamsterwaffle
03-06-2008, 17:00
It was a primary school, anyone with a sexuality or even knowledge of what "gay" is at that age is seriously messed up.
My school, on the other hand, welcomes all pupils of all cultures (except anything that's not catholic) and stuff... It was built by Jesuit Monks in the 60s, and nearly all building projects were funded by the community and the school. I think schools that do this deserve congratulations, and other schools should see faith schools as an example.
Afroman_Myles
03-06-2008, 17:48
As an example of community spirit in a local area? Or as an example of countrywide good practise??
The fact that a lot of faith schools were or are self-funded, seems to make little difference as to whether they should let other religions in or not... There is a difference between a community school and a school that only lets certain religions from the community into it...
Also, from the page before, it seems that deep religious discussion does not need to take place at school, there are places of worship and plenty of opportunities to do this at outside of school...
Plus one final question to ask:
What is the difference between a Christian learning something inside a Catholic school and a Christian learning something in a mixed culture and religion school??
I don't think that being taught science more religiously, would help me out. Though I'd like to see what a Christian school teaches about science - especially as it seems science highlights the ignorance of religion... but that's a different debate...
make.me.smile
03-24-2008, 17:39
http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=7875885
It seems even teachers believe that faith schools are a bad idea.
rosieposey
04-05-2008, 20:09
I personally don't think that faith schools should be abolished. As a pupil at a Catholic High School, I like the opportunities that I am given, such as recieving communion at lunch time, and going on a school trip to Lourdes. These are things that I wouldn't be able to do if I didn't go to a faith school. Also, about 50% of pupils at my school aren't Catholic anyway, but we aren't divided. We all mix without segregation. However, as one of the very few people in my school who openly admits to believing in God and being Catholic, I sometimes get bullied for being Catholic...in a Catholic school!!
BlackPrincess
04-05-2008, 22:05
They should'nt especially since this country is meant to be a Christian country. Religion and faith is a big part of life and being a Christian, I like learning in a Christian environment.
make.me.smile
04-06-2008, 14:19
Religion and faith is a big part of life for many people. But first of all, Christianity isn't the only one, and atheisme is a growing counterpart. I just don't see why you have to seperate people. Can't you just share your beliefs without disrespecting others?
Gotlieb Alexander
04-06-2008, 17:03
I like learning in a Christian environment.
I think it is rather unfair on everyone who isnt a Christian that you don't want to be around them.
Could anyone say:
"I want to learn in a white environment"?
no
So why can we say that of religions and religious races.
http://www.moriahschool.co.uk/admissions-policy.php
This jewish school clearly racialy discriminates due to it prioritising pupils on how many grandparents are jews, this surely has nothing to do with relgioun and is clear racism.
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