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View Full Version : The value of Religion without Belief?


awki
10-11-2008, 00:17
Can anything of value be drawn from 'religious' events/stories if they are stripped down to their bare historical essentials? After removing the need for 'faith' of any kind, are there any fantastic examples left over of how we should live, under the 'what we know for almost certain' category?

For example, historians are almost positive that Jesus lived, but if we ignore his claims to be the son of God, and anything 'supernatural' surrounding his life, is there anything left that could be useful to us?

Gotlieb Alexander
10-11-2008, 00:21
Can anything of value be drawn from 'religious' events/stories if they are stripped down to their bare historical essentials? After removing the need for 'faith' of any kind, are there any fantastic examples left over of how we should live, under the 'what we know for almost certain' category?

For example, historians are almost positive that Jesus lived, but if we ignore his claims to be the son of God, and anything 'supernatural' surrounding his life, is there anything left that could be useful to us?

Historians are sure not that Jesus lived, but that Jesuses lived. There are a lot of records of people fitting Jesus's description but it's unlikely they were the same guy. It's likely the biblical stories were an amalgamation of many of them.

And if Jesus wasn't the son of God then why is his opinion better than that of anyone elses?

Hamsterwaffle
10-11-2008, 00:21
For example, historians are almost positive that Jesus lived, but if we ignore his claims to be the son of God, and anything 'supernatural' surrounding his life, is there anything left that could be useful to us?
If we look at Jesus from a purely atheist historian view, then we can see the effect one individual can have on the world, without that person doing anything historically major.

soph41190
10-11-2008, 09:28
It is the perfect example, the same methods that brought Hitler, and Lenin to power, the same effect. Jewish nations of the period were horrendously oppressed by the Romans, in the same way that say Russia felt oppressed under Tsarism, and pre-Nazi Germany in depression. If one being comes along, with high flying ideals, someone different, outspoken, who promises better things for you if you follow him - who's going to question? They didn't have newspapers, they didn't have geeks on blogs talking about 'conspiracies', it was a time of 'ok, until someone proves you're bogus, I'll believe you'.
If we look at it comparitivly, you could fairly say that by modern standards, Jesus was nothing short of a hugely palpable orator, and poltician.

Marcus89
10-11-2008, 09:53
It is the perfect example, the same methods that brought Hitler, and Lenin to power, the same effect. Jewish nations of the period were horrendously oppressed by the Romans, in the same way that say Russia felt oppressed under Tsarism, and pre-Nazi Germany in depression. If one being comes along, with high flying ideals, someone different, outspoken, who promises better things for you if you follow him - who's going to question? They didn't have newspapers, they didn't have geeks on blogs talking about 'conspiracies', it was a time of 'ok, until someone proves you're bogus, I'll believe you'.
If we look at it comparitivly, you could fairly say that by modern standards, Jesus was nothing short of a hugely palpable orator, and poltician.

If thats true, why the Son of God? why the Divinitive power? To entench his ideas?